What is a Good Life? #87
What is a Good Life? #87
Seeing Yourself In The Other with Dr. Niobe Way
On the 87th episode of the What is a Good Life? podcast, I am delighted to welcome our guest, Dr. Niobe Way. Niobe is Professor of Developmental Psychology at NYU, founder of the Project for the Advancement of Our Common Humanity (PACH; pach.org), and the Principal Investigator of the Listening Project, which fosters curiosity and connection in schools across New York City. Niobe has served as President of the Society for Research on Adolescence (SRA), holds a B.A. from U.C. Berkeley, a doctorate from the Graduate School of Education at Harvard University, and was a postdoctoral fellow at the National Institute of Mental Health at Yale University.
With nearly 40 years of experience researching adolescent social and emotional development, Niobe has authored or co-authored over 100 peer-reviewed articles. She is the author of Deep Secrets: Boys’ Friendships and the Crisis of Connection and her latest book, Rebels with a Cause: Reimagining Boys, Ourselves, and Our Culture.
In this illuminating conversation, Niobe explores what it means to be human and how this is shaped by cultural context, the clash between our nature and culture, and the importance of listening to stories as well as examining data. She highlights the dangers of living in a culture that no longer listens and how much of what is needed for greater connection already exists within us.
If your relationships lack the depth and connection you long for, or if you are struggling to cultivate greater intimacy and curiosity in your life, Niobe offers a wealth of insights, anecdotes, and even exercises for you to consider and practise to reveal your innate capacities for connection.
The weekly clip from the podcast (6 mins), my weekly reflection (3 mins), the full podcast (65 mins), and the weekly questions all follow below.
1. Weekly Clip from the Podcast
2. My weekly reflection
“Sometimes we listen to things but we never hear them. True listening brings us in touch even with that which is unsaid and unsayable… true listening is worship.” - John O’Donohue, Anam Cara.
In this interview, there were a few moments when Niobe and I took the time to note how deeply we sensed the other was listening. The recognition of that went far beyond the concentration on our faces; it was about how the experience felt and the nature of the questions being asked.
Niobe mentioned that, in her classes, she often encourages her students not to ask standard, planned questions but to listen closely and formulate questions based on what the other person has just said, rather than following a set plan or agenda.
Too often, we listen just to find a chance to jump in with something that makes us comfortable or upholds our image. Even when we think we're being subtle, it can sound like, 'Oh, that reminds me of something I did,' or, 'Here's a clever thought I've shared before.' Instead of truly listening, we end up steering the conversation back to ourselves.
We latch onto a single point, disregarding what is said afterward or how much more is being conveyed. We can go back and forth like this, continuously missing each other, even though we may be sitting directly opposite one another.
This can lead to a lot of repetition in our conversations from one to the next. We rarely show up willing to follow the conversation spontaneously, to be fully there with each other, to take chances, to get a deeper sense of what the other means, in order to really connect with another.
I believe nothing creates intimacy like paying attention and truly listening in the moment, trusting yourself to respond with whatever naturally emerges.
When we are genuinely present with someone, different dimensions of relating open up. Often, I feel a dissolving of our separateness, or at least a blurring of boundaries. The conversation stops being about one-upmanship or image, and instead becomes an act of mutual service and discovery, a co-creation.
The "data" exchanged, felt, and noticed in this different dimension, frequency, or vibration of connection allows our listening to take in much more than words. It encompasses the quality of silence between words, the weight of any word used, the eyes behind their eyes, or the deepest rivers running beneath their expression of emotions.
When we notice these subtleties, it’s hard not to equate listening with some form of worship. In such moments, we can see the beauty in each other and recognise shared experiences of humanity. We shed the labels we use to judge or compare and can instead marvel at another living being on their path, expressing consciousness.
Unfortunately, so many of our connections and conversations these days only offer fragments of what they could be. We leave a staggering amount of relating on the table with our distractions, posturing, safeguarding, and avoidance of vulnerability.
While I could lament this, Niobe pointed to something really beautiful and optimistic in terms of what might be required: a simple remembering or revealing of our innate qualities, which we most likely demonstrated as five-year-olds. An unending, spontaneous curiosity and inquiry into whatever we become curious about and expressing that.
The next conversation you find yourself in, maybe ask a question that even you are a little unsure of what it means. Leave things open to vague or uncertain interpretations. Perhaps let go of the question or point that will lead you back to familiar terrain. Let the conversation continue to run through you as you feel compelled to hold onto something while the other person is still talking.
You may be surprised at how riveting and energising a conversation can be, how much of an adventure and a connecting experience it can be, and how much deeper your connection becomes.
3. Full Episode - Seeing Yourself In The Other with Dr. Niobe Way - What is a Good Life? #87
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Photo credit: Daniel Root
4. This week’s Questions
When did you last feel fully heard and seen by another?
When was the last time you simply listened to what someone said without already thinking or preparing your next response as they spoke?
About Me
I am a coach, podcast host, and writer, based in Berlin, via Dublin, Ireland. I started this project in 2021, for which I’ve now interviewed over 200 people. I’m not looking to prescribe universal answers, more that the guests’ lines of inquiry, musings, experiences, and curiosities spark your own inquiry into what the question means to you. I am also trying to share more genuine expressions of the human experience and more meaningful conversations.
If you would like to work with me to explore your own lines of self-inquiry, experiences I create to stimulate more meaningful group conversations, trust, and connection, or you simply want to get in touch, here’s my email and LinkedIn.